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For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2nd Corinthians 11:13-14

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Glenn Beck – Are You Really A Mormon?

Posted by susanb99 on August 3, 2010

What do Mormons — and Glenn Beck — really believe? Watch this video from Todd Friel of Way of the Master Radio to find out.

Or read the transcript that follows.

Glenn Beck…

Glenn, if I said “I believe you live in the state of New York” and you say “Hey! I believe I live in the state of New York too, but in MY mind I believe the state of New York is actually in the south of France”, you’d say “You’re believing in the wrong state of New York” and then utimately we don’t believe in the same thing. One of us has it wrong.

Glenn, we can use the same words but if they have different meanings, well then we don’t believe the same thing.

Glenn Beck video, Beck speaking:

That’s where the deeds come in; it’s the change of heart. May I quote the book of James 2:20 “But wilt thou know oh vain man that faith without works is dead.” What does that mean? Our work is a demonstration of our faith.

Amen! We believe that! We believe that we get saved and then everything that we do after that is good, by the power of the Holy Spirit, and by the way we must agree on Who that is too. By the power of the Holy Spirit we do good works, demonstration of our salvation, not to earn our salvation. You and I agree, Glenn, but we got a third party involved here. You believe that you are a Mormon.

This is what Mormons believe about the atonement, this is what they believe about justification, this is what the Mormon church in their words teaches about works.

Here we go. Number 1:

1. Jesus paid for all our sins when He suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane. (Laurel Rohfling, “Sharing Time: The Atonement”, Friend, Mar. 89, p. 39)

Now this isn’t a huge one, but it’s more than suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane, says orthodox Christianity. He suffered in the Garden, oh that’s true, but also the beating and He suffered on the cross. Not only that, He also suffered before that by setting aside His right to be God, to using those attributes, so that He could be identified with us. So we’ve got a distinction straight away, but there’s more.

Number 2:

2. We accept Christ’s atonement by repenting of our sins, being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and obeying all the commandments. (Gospel

Okay, see the subtle distinction here. We believe, orthodox Christians, by grace alone, faith alone, and Jesus alone. We repent, we trust Him, all sins — past, present, and future — are forgiven. And then we get baptized because we want to be identified with Him because we HAVE been saved. The Holy Spirit happens, He dwells in us when we get saved, and He’s actually working on us before that, and we obey the commands, not for the atonement, but BECAUSE of the atonement.

Number 3: Mormons teach that

3. One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation. (Miracle of Forgiveness, Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206)

Glenn, your church would be telling you that you have just taught the doctrine of satan. So I would ask you Glenn, where you at, man? Where are you at? Are you a Mormon or are you an orthodox Christian? Are you believing in grace alone, which is what Christianity teaches, or are you believing in works? ‘Cause, Glenn, something is off here. Something’s off. Either the words you’re saying, you don’t believe and you’re tricking us, or the words that you’re saying, you believe them and you’re not a Mormon. Which is it?

Number 4:

4. A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and and Satan offered a plan to the Father but Jesus’ plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to “deny men their agency and to dethrone god” (Mormon Doctrine p. 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 8)

Actually it was God’s prearrangement plan (Acts 4). Before all of eternity we don’t have anything of competing plans; this was God’s plan to rescue the souls of men with the death of Jesus on the cross. That is the ONLY plan.

Number 5:

5. Jesus’ sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions). (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247)

Glenn, which is it? Did Jesus forgive all your sins, or are you trying to work it out? Do you disagree with Mormonism or with Christianity?

Number 6:

6. Good works are necessary for salvation. (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 92)

No, Glenn, what you just said is good works happen because of salvation.

Number 7:

7. There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188)

This is a radical difference. Jesus? Or Jesus plus?

Number 8:

8. The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins. (Article of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79)

This isn’t what the Bible teaches. This is a form of universalism. The Bible says that Jesus died — yes, you can say for the whole world, but the whole world isn’t forgiven. The whole world is not atoned for, the whole world is not redeemed, only those who have repented and put their trust in Jesus Christ.

Number 9:

9. This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts. (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697)

 Mormonism clearly teaches you do your best; Jesus does the rest. They say so clearly.

Number 10:

10. We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. (2 Nephi 25:23)

The Bible teaches there is nothing we can do that is good and everything we do is BAD. We don’t contribute some, and Jesus does the rest. Our best has been dog vomit. It has been the stench of an open grave. It has been the puss of an open sore. Everything we do is rotten to the core and Jesus still is willing to forgive it, all to those who repent and put their trust in Him.

By grace are you saved through faith; it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. [Eph. 2:8-9]  By grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourself, doing your best and Jesus does the rest. Not of works so anyone can boast.

Glenn, it is my sincere hope that you, sir, have repented and put your trust in Jesus Christ for the complete atonement, the complete forgiveness of sins. I really WANT that! I don’t to squabble with you and bicker over this stuff! I want you to have believed that so your sins can be forgiven.

[…]

Posted in Apostasy, Glenn Beck | Tagged: , , , , , , , | Leave a Comment »

Jesus’ Death and Resurrection

Posted by susanb99 on April 11, 2009

Isaiah 53:3-5

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

John 20:1-18

The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.

So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.

And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.

Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,

And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.

Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.

For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.

But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,

And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.

And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

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Lee Strobel Makes a Case for “Early Church Father”

Posted by susanb99 on October 7, 2008

Source: Editors at Lighthouse Trails

Popular and prolific Christian figure, Lee Strobel, has made a case for an “early church father,” Ignatius of Antioch (not Loyola). Strobel, author of nearly 20 books, is currently a member of Saddleback Church. He was a teaching pastor at Willow Creek for many years, then joined the teaching staff at Saddleback Church in 2000. (from Strobel’s site) 

Strobel was a speaker at Robert Schuller’s Rethink conference in 2007 and spoke of the early church father, Ignatius of Antioch. (watch video) Strobel speaks as one with authority when he describes the life of Ignatius, but he has left out some vital information about the early post-disciple “church fathers.” Read More…

Posted in Apostasy, Contemplative, Lee Strobel | Tagged: , , , , , , , | Leave a Comment »

Targeting the Children: False Prophets Duping Christian Parents

Posted by susanb99 on April 27, 2008

This article, along with new posts and articles, can also be read on Revival Time, a new Simplicity In Christ blog

Todd Bentley, Patricia King, and Bob Jones, prophets of the Elijah List, what do they have in common? All three of them are targeting your children in order to lift them into a “third heaven” occultic sphere, using meditation, contemplative prayer, angels of light (satan and his demons), emotional manipulation, and blatant lies.

In the following video, Bob Jones, Todd Bentley, and Patricia King speak of this contemplative practice of entering into the “third heaven”:

KING: Todd, I remember years ago, you gave me a phone call and you said ‘Hey, I’ve just been soaking with Bob Jones and I’ve gone up into the “third heaven”‘ and all that. And it was all new to me; I’d never even heard of that kind of language before and I was SO hungry for it. But tell about the first time you met Bob and your encounters in the third heaven.

BENTLEY: The first time I met Bob was actually in Grants Pass, Oregon. We were sitting in a restaurant and I was really hungry; I knew Bob was a real seer prophet. I thought ‘Lord I’m going to get an impartation’. I’ve been having all these encounters and all these visions and experiences already soaking, but I thought ‘Lord I need to talk to somebody that’s been walking in this that’s really a senior prophet’. So when I met Bob, I thought ‘Lord, I’m going to get an impartation’ and I remember talking with Bob in a restaurant about going into the heavens and what it was and we were talking about the “third heaven”, going into the immediate abode, into that place, the dwelling place of God. And I thought ‘That’s awesome!’. I was hungry for it too; I wanted more! ‘Cause, up until that point, sovereignly God was just visiting me. And I was just waiting in His presence and sovereignly God was visiting me. And Bob said to me, he said, ‘We can go right now!’ And I said ‘What do you mean, we can go right now?! We can make the decision right now and enter into that realm of the spirit?’. And he said, “Sure we can! Don’t you have faith, boy?!’. Or something like that. (laughter) That what he said to me…

[…](description of occultic experience into the third heaven)[…]

KING: Well, I remember when you [Bentley] were telling me about it, I got so hungry for it. And right after that Bob was coming to a conference that we were having… I was going to just ask him all kinds of questions about this third heaven, I didn’t know, because I wanted to know. I wanted to experience God in a new way; and I think we all do; we’re all so hungry for Him, right? But I hadn’t caught yet, because you had told me about the experience but not the faith dimension, so I was just still thinking ‘Sovereignty’. God’s sovereignly going to move, take me out, well whatever. So I’m asking Bob questions and Bob, you said ‘Well, I do my raptures every day!’. I said ‘What do you mean, your raptures every day?’. He said ‘I go up every day!’. And I said ‘You go up EVERY DAY! I’d love to go up every day!’ And he said ‘Well, it’s by faith!‘…

A person’s FAITH supersedes God’s SOVEREIGNTY??

Bentley, Jones, and King declare they are going past the sovereignty of God into a contemplative heavenly experience. In scripture there is only one who declares himself to be as high as God — satan:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isaiah 14:14

9:00 minutes into the video:

JONES: A lot of people see a lot of different colors [when in the third heaven], but when I take the children up most of the time, they see the “white light“. And they see the white throne, and nearly everything they see up there is white! That’s what God IS, is white light! But you got all the colors in it. And up there they see one another as white light, for they ARE light.

KING: Wow! I remember you saying to me one time, you said, if you can teach children to ascend into the third heaven and live out of that place then you will have a generation that will not be affected by the devil because the devil can’t go there. Isn’t that profound!?

JONES: Yep! Well, youth and children they hardly have any problem at all going there, especially 6 to 12. They go right up and I’ve seen them take them up and turn them loose! And then after you turn them loose, the first thing they’ll do, they’ll tell you what they’ve seen. So a lot of times with them, I let them tell me what they’ve seen, and then I interpret it to them. And then sometimes I will say, ‘Okay, go up again and see what you see for me’. And I’ll tell you some of the most seer prophecies I’ve got, come from some of them 6, 7, 8 years old! And some of the conferences I’ve been in, when the youth go up, I’ll tell those, the speakers of the conferences, you want blessed, go let the children pray for you. And see, they go continually there! They haven’t been taught the doubt that we have here.

In this video of Bentley’s Lakeland Healing Revival in Florida, Bentley talks about an angel of light in regards to children:

6:42 minutes into the video:

We’re going to have an anointing service because the Lord spoke to me about families and He was going to visit. I saw the angel today that was going to visit the children. I saw the angel that only two times have I seen that is going to visit the children. I tell you what, there is a glory moving into the room. Just go ahead and just… Ohhhh! Get under that! Ohhh! Ohhh! Lord, let it move across the whole place! A drunken glory! Heavy, heavy, weighty, weighty, weighty glory! Smoky glory, Shekinah glory, in all the colors in the glory!…

On Bentley’s site:

Todd saw the Glory Cloud of Revelation… that is, the cloud that is the fullness of the Holy Spirit, the seven Spirits of God. The Lord also showed Todd in the vision, an old Punjabi sadhu (holy man) [Ed. note: mystic], by the name of Sundar Singh, who lived in India and evangelized throughout the world over a hundred years ago. The Holy Spirit spoke to Todd about a new release of prophetic revelation coming… Todd examines the significance of Sundar Singh in his vision as an example of the extraordinary relationship God wants us to have with Him. It’s a wonderful life of devotion, humility, daily discipline, worship and contemplative prayer that calls us daily to soak in and seek God’s manifest presence. (emphasis added)

From Wolf Tracks site:

Why would God give his children a vision of a contemplative who combined the East and West in his meditative disciplines? Is this where Todd Bentley’s ideas about visions, spirituality, and ’soaking’ prayer are coming from?

Why would God, indeed. Bentley, King, and Jones are occultic mystics, doing the works of the flesh, a form of godliness but denying the power thereof (2nd Timothy 3:5). The power of God is not in evidence, nowhere to be found in their false teachings.

The fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23):

Love
Joy
Peace
Longsuffering
Gentleness
Goodness
Faith
Meekness
Temperance

The fruit or evidence of the Spirit is not false doctrines (heresies), excitement, shaking, barking, laughing uncontrollably, getting a shove from the preacher to be “slain in the spirit”, jumping in “the river”, etc., etc., etc…

Parents, please do not allow your children to be involved in these occultic experiences. Pay attention to what is being taught — not only their teachings but yours as well. Check EVERYTHING against the Word of God.

Related Article:
Fake ‘Child Faith Healers’: Passing the Occult Mantle to the Children

Posted in Apostasy, Bob Jones, Contemplative, Occult, Patricia King, Todd Bentley | Tagged: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , | 1 Comment »

Emergent MIND Change

Posted by susanb99 on April 25, 2008

From Herescope:

“A new world, as the mystics have always said, is a new mind.”
-Marilyn Ferguson, The Aquarian Conspiracy:Personal and Social Transformation in the 1980s
(J.P. Tarcher, 1980), p. 36 [emphasis added]

“The mystery of the creative/intuitive mind is underscored in the ‘perennial wisdom‘, which finds the deep intuition connected to the one Universal Mind. Thus there are indeed no limits to its capabilities save those the individual creates as part of the resistance to discovering one’s godlike qualities. Furthermore, because of this connection to the All, problem solutions, which come from the deep intuition will be solutions that benefit all, not one at the expense of others.”

– Willis Harman, Global Mind Change: The New Age Revolution in the Way We Think
(Warner Books, 1988), p. 88 [emphasis added]

Dr. Dennis Cuddy, in his bi-weekly NewsWithViews column on April 7 made a startling observation. Cuddy, an historian and author with expertise in the mental health arena, noticed that there were similarities in Brian McLaren‘s new book everything must change: Jesus, Global Crises, and a Revolution of Hope and Eckhart Tolle‘s new book touted by Oprah’s Book Club, A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life’s Purpose. Both authors define mental illness in terms of wrong belief systems which are harming the planet:

McLaren in his book continued to explain that this failed Christian religion’s threats of hell “lose their effect when those making the threats seem a little defensive, deranged, out of touch, manic…..” Note that he’s saying they are mentally ill! This is similar to New Ager Marilyn Ferguson in THE AQUARIAN CONSPIRACY: PERSONAL AND SOCIAL TRANSFORMATION IN THE 1980s (1980) saying that if people will get rid of “crippling belief systems,” they can have a “transformation of consciousness” and find “sanity within.” More recently, it sounds like Eckhart Tolle’s A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE’S PURPOSE (2005) promoted by Oprah’s Book Club. He asserts that all of those expressing the certainty that “I am right and you are wrong” are a “dangerous thing in religions.” It reflects a “collective mental illness.” Tolle characterizes “sin” as simply “missing the point” of human existence and suggests that “Eastern wisdom teachings” allow us to “let go of dogmas” and “rigid belief systems.” He also relates that in THE HOLY BIBLE “a new heaven” actually refers to “the emergence of a transformed state of human consciousness.” Note again the terms “mental illness” and “transformed.” (“Transformation by Crises and Synthesis”)

Indeed the two books do bear a basic similarity in their underlying premise that man’s belief systems (i.e., particularly orthodox Christian theology) are deranged and need to undergo a basic “shift” that will result in “transformation” necessary for the survival of the planet.

Read More…

 

Posted in Apostasy, Brian McLaren, Contemplative, Eckhart Tolle, Occult, Oprah Winfrey | Tagged: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , | Leave a Comment »

Alpha Course Added to Spiritual Formation List

Posted by susanb99 on April 21, 2008

From Lighthouse Trails Blog:

Lighthouse Trails Research has added the Alpha Course to its Spiritual Formation list. This list is comprised of Christian organizations that are promoting Spiritual Formation (i.e., contemplative spirituality). It is the hope of Lighthouse Trails that believers can be made aware of this fast growing spirituality that negates biblical Christianity because of its mystical, panentheistic roots.

In an article titled “The Power of Alpha,” it states that USA Alpha president Todd Hunter is “excited about the marriage of spiritual formation and evangelism that Alpha brings.” Regarding spiritual formation, Hunter states

You’ve probably heard me articulate my vision to connect evangelism and spiritual formation into a seamless whole…. This requires what my friend Richard Foster is calling “The With-God Life.” Come to the International Renovare Conference and you will hear Richard, Dallas Willard, and others discuss The With-God Life. These are my favorite teachers I personally go anywhere, anytime to interact with.

On Hunter’s blog where he made this statement, he also invited visitors to attend a special lunch with Brian McLaren (already past). 1

In addition to Hunter’s hope to use Alpha as an avenue for spiritual formation, the following statement on another Alpha site backs this up:

My Anglican friends in England are very enthusiastic about the Alpha conference. At a time when many are seeking spiritual formation in the context of congregational life, the Alpha conference format has the potential to meet those expectations.”2

To understand the foundational problems with Alpha and to see its New Age implications, please examine our research on the Alpha Course. Much of this research comes from the tireless efforts of Dusty Peterson and Elizabeth McDonald, who have provided extensive documentation on Alpha (including their book, Alpha, the Unofficial Guide).

Posted in Apostasy, Brian McLaren, Contemplative, Occult | Tagged: , , , , , , , , , , | Leave a Comment »

Mark Driscoll and Purpose Driven

Posted by susanb99 on April 17, 2008

Rick Warren has scheduled a pastors’ conference at Saddleback Church next month. The aim is to “band together to impact the world” by participating in “a brand-new, world-shattering, myth-busting, ministry-affirming, God-anointed, BY-INVITATION-ONLY event. We’re going to share all the new tools we’ve been developing for you.”

Included in the list of speakers is Mark Driscoll. What is a supposedly Bible-teaching pastor doing at a purpose-driven conference? Teaching the Bible is not one of them. Let’s see, where would Driscoll fit in? (my notes in brackets; emphasis added)

PANEL DISCUSSIONS:

Evangelism: …we’ll talk about the importance of personal evangelism, and share what has helped challenge our members to go out in the Community and invite their friends. Let’s talk about reaching out to non-believers in our area and seeing Christ through their eyes.

[preaching/teaching the Gospel is not part of PD’s Evangelism]

 

Worship: …In this panel we’ll discuss tools for reaching the weekend Crowd, messages geared toward personal application, the advantages of using various venues styles, and preaching for life change…

[non-believers CANNOT worship God; God must be worshipped in spirit and in truth (Jesus Christ)]

 

Fellowship: …we’ll address common goals and problem areas in encouraging our Congregation to connect with the church body…

[in order to produce a cheerfully tithing “giving unit”]

 

Discipleship: …we’ll break down what we’ve found to work, and what doesn’t work, in motivating the Committed individuals within the church body to truly invest in their spiritual growth, and brainstorm on how to get people serious about their faith…

[just look to scripture and “what works” is easy to find; Warren likes to make it seem soooo difficult]

 

Ministry: …we’ll cover how to further push the dedicated Core at the heart of the church to discover their spiritual gifts, how to progress them from finding their S.H.A.P.E. to using it… and preparing them for “works of service so that the body of Christ may be built up”.

[how bogus; the SHAPE program was invented by Warren with the help of the writings of occultist/atheist Carl Jung; it is in no way scriptural]

 

Mission: …Our goal is to spread love, forgiveness, and hope to a lost and hurting world through P.E.A.C.E…

[the love of the world, forgiveness without repentance, and false hope]

Online Source

Where does Driscoll fit it? In order to be involved he will have to lay aside scripture and be part of Warren’s plan to change and take over the world. For Christ, supposedly but actually changing the world is for Warren’s benefit and glory. It is sad that Driscoll is mixed up with this lot. Very sad.

Posted in Apostasy, Contemplative, Mark Driscoll, Occult, Rick Warren | Tagged: , , , , , , , | Leave a Comment »

From the Desk of Steve Shultz – The Nature of (False) Prophecy

Posted by susanb99 on April 16, 2008

Recently I posted about Kim Clement’s Obama prophecy in which Clement claims “God” told him to tell us that Obama is God’s man for the White House “to rule and to reign and to declare victory in the Middle East” (whose victory? Israelis’ or Palestinians’?). Read the post HERE.

The prophecy is posted on elijahlist.com which is run by Steve Shultz. Before Shultz posts each prophecy, he writes a little about the prophecy. The following is part of what Mr. Shultz wrote about Clement’s Obama prophecy:

From the Desk of Steve Shultz–ITEM IMPORTANT

Tuesday, April 8 at 1:01pm, I received this Word by Kim Clement regarding Obama. It was sent in and approved by Kim’s staff. Notice the words “APPROVED” below. It’s also about things such as “unity,” the “economy” etc. Again, this is NOT my personal endorsement…

I also don’t necessarily see it as Kim’s personal endorsement either–he seeks to speak what he hears only…

I always take prophecies like this and read them over and over–trying to determine EXACTLY what is or IS NOT being said…

We post controversial prophecies like this one–as always–for prayer and discernment. For those who are new to this list, it is possible that we would publish more future words from other prophets that would appear to contradict this word. That’s the nature of prophecy...

(emphasis in original – click here to read in full)

Note what he himself has highlighted in his note. Contradictory prophecies are normal and are the nature of prophecy. According to Shultz, Clement only prophesies what he hears even if it contradicts what “God” supposedly said through another prophet. I suppose if some other prophet hears from “God” that John McCain would be elected President of the U.S., it would also be a valid prophecy from God. You see, that’s the problem with flighty prophets such as those from the Elijah List. There isn’t any consistency and they demean God by saying He contradicts Himself!

It takes a lot of adacity and gall to shake their collective fists in God’s face and say “Hey, we don’t care what You have actually said through Your Word, through Scripture! We’ll just make up the words as we go along and tell everyone it’s from YOU! We have to make money somehow, don’t we?” Directly after the note from the desk of Steve Shultz, and before Clement’s prophecy, two of Clement’s “BRILLIANT products” are offered – for cash of course.

It is simply amazing that there are “christians” who believe that the prophecies of the Elijah List are from God. No, they are not. Can’t be. Those prophets are listening to a different voice.

Related Article
Channeling God

Posted in Apostasy, Contemplative, Occult, Steve Shultz | Tagged: , , , , , , , | Leave a Comment »

Testing the Spirits

Posted by susanb99 on April 15, 2008

From True Discernment:

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1John 4:1

This is one of the most important passages for the church today. It is also one of the most misunderstood. Many in today’s lukewarm church make no effort to test the spirits. They swallow anything fed to them. Any teacher, preacher, or so called apostle or prophet that comes along is accepted as long as they have some kind of credential or some type of endorsement from the majority.

Some believe that they are testing the spirits but they test by the flesh. When a preacher draws large crowds, has a large church, or sells lots of books he is assumed to be operating by the spirit of God. His success in worldly terms is seen as God’s stamp of approval upon his message. If the message tickles the ears of the listener or if it makes the listener feel secure about the direction of his life, all the better. In fact I’d say that most people today believe the most important reason to attend a church service is so that they can be encouraged, so that they can feel good about themselves.

So, what is the proper method of testing the spirits? Let’s continue with 1 John chapter 4

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1John4:2

The first problem with this passage of scripture is that most modern bible versions mis-translate it. The translation error concerns one single word but that one word when presented in the wrong tense completely changes the meaning of the verse.

Demons know and acknowledge who Jesus is. That doesn’t mean they are saved because they refuse to repent and submit to him, but they know and can speak the words.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Math 7:22-23These people call Jesus Lord, yet he tells them to depart, that he never knew them.

Notice that it says every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ IS COME in the flesh…

It does not say every sprit that confesseth that Jesus Christ HAS COME

The words translated ‘is come’ is from the Greek word erchomai {er’-khom-ahee} meaning to come, to make oneself known, to be, to come into being, to be established.

In the Greek language this is a PRESENT TENSE VERB! To translate it as past tense (has come) turns the meaning of the verse on its head.

I am not a King James Only advocate but this is a case where the King James and the American Standard Version are clearly superior. The New International Version, The New King James, The New Living Testament, The Amplified, The New American Standard, and the English Standard Version, all put the verb in the past tense.
Why I am spending so much time on this point? Because the test of the spirit is not whether one can say that Jesus did exist. The test is that one can confess that Jesus does exist in the flesh in the here and now.

Let’s break this down a little further. The first thing to consider is that John says every SPIRIT that confesses. It does not say every tongue (flesh). Many people believe that if a person can mouth the words ‘Jesus is Lord’ or ‘Jesus is the son of God’ that somehow proves their message is from God. This is not true. The spirit must be tested by the spirit, not by the flesh.

Did you know that demon spirits can speak through a person’s mouth and say that Jesus is the son of God?

And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, JESUS, THOU SON OF GOD? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? Math 8:28-29

Just saying Jesus is Lord is not a good test either.

A person can say anything with their mouth. We know the devil can quote scripture like an expert. The test is not the mouth but the spirit. What is the spirit speaking?

The word confesseth here is the Greek word homologeo {hom-ol-og-eh’-o} meaning to SPEAK THE SAME AS, to agree with, to refuse to deny. This means more than just mental assent or acknowledgement. It means to be in complete harmony or union, to be one with.

So, regardless what a person may say with their mouth, you must discern what that person’s spirit is confessing. Is the spirit speaking the same as Jesus? Is that spirit in agreement with, in harmony with Christ?

Are they manifesting the character and nature of Christ? That is the test.

So, we know that it is the spirit, not the flesh that must pass the test and that confession means more than just speaking or mental assent.

Let’s look at this verse again

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:……. 1John4:2-3

Many believe that Jesus HAS COME in the flesh. Many believe that he WILL COME again in the future.

But few believe and confess that he IS COME IN THE FLESH right here and right now!

It is not enough to confess that Jesus lived and died and is coming again. The gospel declares that he lives today in us, meaning IN HIS CORPORATE BODY upon the earth.

When Jesus returns physically to the earth he will be in his glorified eternal body. The only flesh that Jesus will ever inhabit is OUR FLESH.

Do you see this? This is what all the prophets and men of God under the old covenant could only imagine. They didn’t really understand it. It was a mystery to them. It was the great mystery!

Colossians 1:26-27 says it is the mystery hidden from the ages – CHRIST IN YOU the hope of glory!

It is Galatians 2:20 – I am crucified with Christ nevertheless I live, yet not I but CHRIST LIVETH IN ME…!

It is Romans 6:4 and Col 2:12 – buried with him in death but RISEN WITH HIM in newness of life!

Do you really believe and confess (speaking the same as) that Christ lives in you? Do you actually manifest the presence of Christ in your spirit or do you just believe that Christ died (past tense) for you. Do you really understand that if you are truly born again by the spirit of God that Christ lives in you, or do you just hope to go to heaven when you die (future tense). Perhaps you are hoping for the rapture to take you to Jesus (future tense) before you physically die.

You need to get a revelation of this truth!

Jesus said in Math 11:11 that John the Baptist was the greatest prophet born under the old covenant. But he added that he who is least in the kingdom is greater than John. Why is that?

Because in Gods kingdom, under His new covenant, it is CHRIST IN YOU! And Christ is greater than all the old covenant prophets and kings!

Let’s continue on with the verse.

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:3

When a spirit fails to confess that Jesus IS COME in the flesh, that is the spirit of antichrist. Let me explain.

Most people misunderstand the term antichrist. They think of some evil end time ruler who will be the devil incarnate. While there may well be a person who physically embodies the term that is not what this scripture is speaking of.

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 1 John 2:18

What does John mean when he says many antichrists?

The term antichrist doesn’t mean opposite of Christ. It means IN PLACE OF CHRIST.

The evil end time ruler who is to come will not come as someone who is mean and nasty (opposite of Christ). He will come as an impersonator. He will seek to take the place of Christ in the lives of believers.

John says that even now there are many antichrists. Right now there are many who seek to take the place of Christ in the lives of believers.

The spirit of antichrist doesn’t care if you believe that Jesus HAS COME. He doesn’t mind if you believe that Jesus WILL COME. But he doesn’t want you to believe and confess that Jesus IS COME.

If you understand that Jesus is come in your flesh right here and right now, then antichrist cannot take Christ’s place in your life. And that is the purpose of antichrist, to serve as an alternative to Jesus.

This is exactly what all false teachers teach. They set themselves IN PLACE OF CHRIST. They speak of the great anointing that THEY have. They tell us that if you’ll send THEM your prayer request, THEY will agree with you and THEIR powerful agreement will produce results.

They tell us that God is going to be doing great things at THEIR next meeting or there will be a great anointing at THEIR next crusade so you MUST make plans to BE THERE.

All of this is antichrist in nature. If you listen carefully you will hear this antichrist spirit plainly in almost every major ministry today.

Do you feel like you need to get a great man of God to “agree” with you for your needs to be met? Do you feel like you must “sow a seed” of money into some ministry in order to get God to do something for you. Do you think that God will meet your needs sooner or in a greater way if you are a “partner” with some ministry? Do you feel if you could only be near the man of God, that if you could only get to that meeting, your prayers will be answered?

If you feel like that, you have been taken captive by the spirit of antichrist. You have been deceived. You don’t really believe that Christ lives in you. You have allowed some man to take the place of Christ in your life.

I once heard a popular woman “evangelist” say “Partners, I have heard your prayer requests and help is on the way!” She then held up her new 8 tape teaching series on health and nutrition. Yes sir, help was on the way and you could have that help for a “love gift” of $69.95!

That was the spirit of antichrist speaking right straight out of her mouth. She didn’t “hear” her partner’s prayer requests. She wasn’t truly able to meet their needs. But she was putting herself in the place of Christ for those people who would follow her.

Some of you will say ”now hold on there brother, what she really meant was……….”

I know what she really meant. What she really meant was what came out of her mouth.

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. Math 12:34

What was in her heart came out of her mouth. It was the spirit of antichrist. Look at this.

……. even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:18-19

Where did all these antichrist spirits come from? They came from within the church! This is not speaking of Muslim’s or Hindu’s, or even Mormons. John is speaking of false teachers who began in the body of Christ.

Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Acts 20:30

Again, the scripture agrees. Men shall arise from within the church seeking to draw away disciples unto themselves. They don’t make disciples unto Jesus. They make disciples unto themselves.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 Peter 2:1

And do you know what these men (and women) call their disciples today? They call them partners. This is the spirit of antichrist.

Now let’s look at one more aspect of testing the spirits that is widely misunderstood by the body of Christ.

What does it mean to deny the Lord? Again, many people believe that as long as someone can say Jesus is Lord that makes them and their teaching acceptable. But Peter is not talking about that.
Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls? Luke 12:24

This doesn’t mean that someone will come before you and try to tell you that Jesus was not God or that Jesus was not the Son of God. That false teaching would be obvious. This scripture says that these teachings will be brought into the church privily meaning craftily.

These false teachings are subtle. They are close to the truth and may contain some element of truth but taken on the whole they are false. Just like the difference between has come and is come is subtle but crucial to the real meaning of the verse.

The Greek word here translated denying is the word arneomai {ar-neh’-om-ahee} meaning to deny, abnegate, abjure, not to accept. In other words it means to CONTRADICT.

Remember, a person can say anything with their mouth (flesh). They can say Jesus is Lord but if their teaching contradicts the teaching of Jesus, they are denying Christ. Let me give you an example.

Many ministries today teach the so called doctrine of “seed faith” giving. They tell you that if you want God to meet your need, you must first “plant a seed” meaning make a gift of money to their ministry. Many go so far as to say that God will not do anything for you until you first promise to give money to Him.

But what did Jesus say?

Jesus clearly says that God will GIVE us the physical things we need if we will seek first His kingdom and His righteousness.

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Math 6:33

Birds don’t sow or reap. They don’t heap up their food into barns. They just go out every day and gather what God has provided for them. Jesus asked the question, don’t you think you are better than birds. If God takes care of the birds in this way, won’t He take care of you?
Who hath prevented (preceded, or gone before) me, that I should repay him? Whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine. Job 41:11

So, any minister that teaches that you must “sow a seed” for God to meet your need is directly contradicting the words of Jesus.

According to 2 Peter 2:1 that minister is a false teacher. He is a liar and is speaking by the spirit of antichrist. He is denying (contradicting) the Lord.

Here’s one more example.

Most ministries and churches today operate in some form or fashion by exacting pledges, promises, or vows from their members. This may seem innocent enough. You may even have pledged to the building fund in your church. You may have promised to give some amount of money over the course of some time period to pay for a new building or some other project. As with the case of seed faith giving mentioned above, many ministries tell people if they don’t have the money to go ahead and pledge it, or vow to pay it and God will provide it. But what did Jesus say?

Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. Math 5:33-36

An oath is a pledge, a vow, a promise and Jesus says here not to do it. He is saying you shouldn’t make a promise or pledge of some future action because you don’t know what the future holds.

Consider this verse.

Do you still think you should precede God with a pledge or promise and expect him to repay it?It is CHRIST IN YOU in you the hope of glory!

Again, those that teach vows, pledges, and oaths are denying (contradicting) the Lord. They are operating by the spirit of antichrist.

Do you know why many of God’s people fail to get their prayers answered, why they fail to receive their healing or their material needs remain unmet? Because they don’t go to Jesus. They go to some man who claims to represent Jesus. This is antichrist.

So remember, a person can speak anything out of their mouth. Just hearing the words from a person’s mouth is no test of the spirit. Paul says we should know no man after the flesh. Neither should we judge by the flesh but by the spirit. The spirit must be tested by the spirit, not by the flesh.

A man may mouth the words ‘Jesus is Lord’ but if his spirit does not confess (speak the same as) Jesus, if his spirit is not one with, in unison with the words and teaching of Christ he is antichrist.

He may have a big banner over his pulpit proclaiming that Jesus is Lord. He may even end every meeting and broadcast by saying “Remember, Jesus is Lord” but if his teaching and doctrine contradict the doctrine of Christ, he is a false teacher.

If a ministry or church is not teaching you that Jesus IS COME in your flesh today, they are antichrist.

If they are not teaching you that the gospel is CHRIST IN YOU, they are antichrist.

If a preacher doesn’t clearly teach that you can manifest the kingdom of God right now in your flesh, he is antichrist.

He is seeking to take the place of Christ in your life. He is attempting to draw away disciples unto himself.

From these many antichrist teachers we must withdraw. You must understand that you don’t need to go to a man to hear from God. You don’t need to pay money to a minister to get God to move in your life. You can hear from God yourself. You can know God’s will for every day of your life.

Jesus Christ IS COME in the flesh!

It is CHRIST IN YOU in you the hope of glory!

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Rob Bell’s Comments at Seeds of Compassion

Posted by susanb99 on April 15, 2008

From A Little Leaven:

Rob Bell shared the stage today with “his holiness” the Dalai Lama during an InterSpiritual panel discussion at the Seeds of Compassion conference.

Bell’s defenders claimed that he would be a voice for Christianity at this event. But, right out of the box Bell’s comments accomplished nothing more than blend the ooooie goooie non-sensical spirituality that was being promoted at this event.

Below is Rob Bell answering the question that a twelve year old boy asked. Here was his question…

What can I do to not be so hard on myself when I make a mistake?”

If Bell were giving a Christian answer then he should have mentioned the forgiveness of sins won by Jesus Christ on the cross. Here was Rob Bell’s answer…

See Video HERE

In this second video pay close attention to how Bell allegorizes Christ’s death and resurrection so that it can fit into the generic one-world spirituality being promoted at this event.

See Video HERE

For more video of the Seeds of Compassion InterSpiritual Panel Discussion Click Here.

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